Ill Literacy, Episode 182: Measuring the Man (Guest: Jonathan W. White)

Published November 27, 2025

In Episode 182 of Ill Literacy, Tim Benson talks with Jonathan W. White, co-editor of Measuring the Man: The Writings of Frederick Douglass on Abraham Lincoln.

Heartland’s Tim Benson is joined once again by Jonathan W. White, Professor of American Studies at Christopher Newport University, to discuss his latest book, co-edited with Lucas E. Morel, Measuring the Man: The Writings of Frederick Douglass on Abraham Lincoln. They chat about how White discovered a cache of unknown, insightful letters in England by Douglass on Lincoln, the distrust and vitriol Douglass directed at Lincoln as he moved slowly and methodically toward emancipation, how three personal interactions between the two led to powerful feelings of friendship and mutual admiration, and how, after Lincoln’s assassination, Douglass expressed greater appreciation for Lincoln’s statesmanship during the Civil War and praised him as a model for postwar America.

Get the book here: https://reedypress.com/shop/measuring-the-man/

Show Notes:

Smithsonian Magazine: Lucas E. Morel & Jonathan W. White – “When Historians Rediscovered These Frederick Douglass Letters, They Were Surprised by His Candid Opinions About Abraham Lincoln”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/historians-rediscovered-frederick-douglass-letters-surprised-candid-opinions-abraham-lincoln-180987175/

The Wall Street Journal: David S. Reynolds – “‘Measuring the Man’ Review: Partners in Their Time”

https://www.wsj.com/arts-culture/books/measuring-the-man-review-partners-in-their-time-2a96aff1?mod=books_more_article_pos114